Legislature(2021 - 2022)
12/17/2021 09:00 AM House SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
DECEMBER 17, 2021
9:00 AM
FULL COMMITTEE
9:03:21 AM
1. CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER:
Deb Fancher directed Jerry Anderson to call roll.
Roll Call
Senator David Wilson
Senator Tom Begich
Representative Chris Tuck Alternate for Rep. Sara Hannan
Skip Cook
Conner Thomas
Joyce Anderson
Deb Fancher
Lee Holmes
Quorum present.
Others present
Jerry Anderson
Jacqui Yeagle
Senator Elvi Gray-Jackson
Deb Fancher asked if there were telephonic participants.
There were no telephonic participants at that time.
For the benefit of individuals on teleconference and in the
audience, Deb Fancher reminded committee members and guests
to identify themselves each time they speak. She announced
that the meeting was expected to last about 90 minutes.
9:04:27 AM
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Deb Fancher asked for a motion to approve the agenda.
Motion made by: Lee Holmes
Second: Senator Tom Begich
Deb Fancher entertained objections or discussion. There
were no objections or discussion. The agenda was approved.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
a. April 13, 2021, Full Committee meeting minutes
Deb Fancher entertained a motion to approve the [full
committee meeting] minutes.
Motion made by: Senator Tom Begich
Deb Fancher entertained objections. No objections. The
April 13, 2021, full committee minutes were approved.
b. April 13, 2021, Senate Subcommittee meeting minutes
Deb Fancher entertained a motion to approve the senate
subcommittee meeting minutes.
Motion made by: Lee Holmes
Deb Fancher entertained objections. No objections. The
April 13, 2021, senate subcommittee committee minutes
were approved.
9:05 AM
4. PUBLIC COMMENT
Deb Fancher entertained public comment.
Andre McLeod stated that she works with the Alaska Public
Interest Research Group (AKPIRG) but was speaking to the
committee members in a personal capacity. She said with the
election season beginning, she is concerned about the
conflict of interest related to the use of official titles
for partisan political activity and unofficial legislative
business.
Andre McLeod reported that legislators have been using
official titles in campaign-related activities. She added
that in the campaign kick-off materials, one gubernatorial
candidate listed a group of legislators using their
official titles. Another example is that recently Alaska
State Senator Josh Revaks name is being used in U.S.
Representative Don Youngs campaign materials.
Andre McLeod asked that the committee address this
conflict of interest. She reported that she had spoken with
Jerry Anderson, and that he had told her that there was no
formal advice about using an official title, a state asset
that belongs to the state and the people. She asserted that
using an official title for campaign purposes is a conflict
of interest, is unethical, and should be fixed, and the
committee to do so.
Senator Tom Begich thanked Andre McLeod. He said that when
he is asked to provide an endorsement, he asks that his
title not be used. But sometimes titles are used against
the wishes of the legislator. Senator Tom Begich asked
Andre McLeod how she might want legislators to address
that, especially when they have been explicit in asking
people not to [use their official titles].
Andre McLeod suggested making public that legislators
endorse candidates in their personal capacity and [their
endorsement] is not related to their official positions as
legislators. She believes that in doing so, the campaign
industry will become aware it is not a practice that
reflects well on the candidate. Further, she believes it is
incumbent on the legislators to protect their titles, and
to publicly say, Dont do that. It shows the character of
a candidate who continues to use [official titles] when
asked not to do so. Senator Tom Begich thanked Andre
McLeod.
Andre McLeod asked if a member of the public may request
an official opinion from the committee and if so, how a
member of the public may do so.
Joyce Anderson responded that a request for a formal
opinion has to come from a legislator or legislative
employee. A member of the public may not request an
advisory opinion from the committee.
Joyce Anderson said that she believes the only advisory
opinion addressing the question is one that allows a
legislator to write a letter of reference and use their
title. She added that the ethics office advises that
legislators are allowed to use their titles unless doing so
would violate a provision of the Ethics Act.
Deb Fancher recognized Senator Tom Begich. Senator Begich
said he had called the ethics office about three years ago
and asked if people were allowed to use his title on an
invitation and he remembers Jerry Anderson saying that it
was not allowed. Senator Begich asked Jerry Anderson to
research that.
Jerry Anderson responded that he could provide the
information to all of the committee members.
Senator Tom Begich said that would be appreciated. He added
that he believes there is a prohibition on legislators
doing any solicitation for political purposes during
session and asked Jerry Anderson to confirm that belief.
Jerry Anderson responded that Senator Begich was correct
and that particular information had been distributed often
in newsletters in 2021.
Senator Tom Begich asked for confirmation that the high
number of newsletters that included that information was
due to last years extended session. Jerry Anderson
confirmed.
Representative Chris Tuck said that people use other titles
in campaigning. If they are a legislator, they are a
legislator. He cautioned treading lightly. Legislator is
an earned title just like doctor is an earned title. He
added that he will review what a legislator can do during
session. He knows, for example, that they cant campaign
for themselves but is not sure if they can or cannot
endorse other candidates while they are in office; and he
does not think that they should use their legislative title
during session when endorsing candidates in races other
than the legislature.
Andre McLeod cited AS 24.60.030: prohibitions related to
conflicts of interest and ethical conduct, specifically
(a)(2) a legislator or legislative employee may not use
public funds,facilities, equipment, services, or another
government asset or resource for a nonlegislative purpose,
for involvement in or support of or opposition to partisan
political activity, or for the private benefit of the
legislator, legislative employee, or another person. She
said that she thinks it makes clear that state titles are
public titles, they belong to the people of Alaska, [and]
they do not belong to that legislator. The people of Alaska
are allowing that legislator to use the title for official
action, not for unofficial action, and definitely not for
endorsements.
Andre McLeod continued saying there are advantages to
being an incumbent and this is one of those advantages, and
it is, in her opinion, prohibited. She said it [legislative
title] is a state asset, although you cant touch it, you
cant feel it, it adds a certain gravitas to an endorsement
from a legislator using their state title. She thinks on
balance, one would want to be careful and to err on the
side of the people rather than the candidate.
Andre McLeod added that although doctor is an earned
title, it is a personal earned title. The title of
representative or senator belong to the people. She ended
by saying that she hopes someone on the committee would
request for clarity an opinion on this and maybe move the
needle a little bit. She believes the last time this
question was addressed was in 2007 with regard to the use
of letterhead.
Senator Tom Begich asked for the statute that Andre McLeod
cited.
Deb Fancher replied it was AS 24.60.030. She continued,
saying that the way she reads and hears that section of
statute, she does not hear anything about titles. Its
about state assets. While reluctant to speak for Andre
McLeod, Deb Fancher believes that Andre McLeod is
referring to the titles representative and senator as a
state asset.
Representative Chris Tuck stated that a doctorate is an
earned title and that the university that grants that title
no longer owns that title after it is conferred. The title
of elected officials is an earned albeit temporary title.
Representative Chris Tuck said personally when he converses
with a former governor or senator, he refers to that person
as governor or senator, and said that he thinks the
committee needs to define what happens to those titles when
someone leaves office.
Joyce Anderson directed her response to Representative
Chris Tuck, saying that legislators may endorse other
candidates during session but they may not be part of a
fundraising event. She added that there is an advisory
opinion to that effect.
Deb Fancher thanked Joyce Anderson and noted for the record
that Representative DeLena Johnson had telephonically
joined the meeting.
Joyce Anderson reiterated that if the committee wants to
move forward with this, a written request for an advisory
opinion needs to be submitted.
Representative Chris Tuck directed a comment to Andre
McLeod, saying that her representative and senator may also
request an advisory opinion. Andre McLeod thanked
Representative Chris Tuck for his comment.
Deb Fancher asked if there was any other public comment.
Hearing no other public comment, Deb Fancher moved to the
next agenda item.
9:21:46 AM
5. CHAIR/STAFF REPORT
Deb Fancher asked Jerry Anderson to address the chair/staff
report.
a. Gift of Travel/Hospitality Disclosures
Jerry Anderson identified himself and directed the
committees attention to a list of disclosures received
under the gift statute, specifically, gifts of
travel/hospitality disclosures primarily for the purpose of
obtaining information on matters of legislative concern.
There are lots of different organizations sponsoring
legislators and legislative staffers on trips. Staff
follows up when there is not a clear explanation of the
matter of legislative concern or an agenda item includes
items such as getting re-elected. When that happens, the
discloser is alerted the trip may lack legislative concern.
The purpose of including this agenda item is to make the
committee aware that staff is following up on those
disclosures that dont appear to have a legislative
concern. No committee action is requested at this time.
Senator Tom Begich said CSG (Council of State Governments)
is a nonpartisan organization and there is no electoral
activity involved. He added that he can't imagine allowing
a gift for an election purpose, and at the least, travel
for re-election purposes should be prohibited, and further,
that even if it is only a part of the event, the entire
expenditure should be disqualified. Senator Begich
concluded by saying that gifts about a campaign should be
reported to APOC.
Jerry Anderson said that when staff sees a topic like
increasing your donor base on a disclosure or in an
agenda, the discloser is told they may not accept the gift.
The list represents just a sample of the gift disclosures
received.
Senator Tom Begich said he thinks there should be a policy
that includes a review of the agendas and if an agenda is
not provided, the disclosure should not be approved.
Joyce Anderson agreed with Senator Tom Begich that a
disclosure should be approved as a matter of legislative
concern.
Conner Thomas asked what the current procedure is when
staff receives such a disclosure.
Jerry Anderson responded that staff asks for an agenda when
the legislative purpose of an activity is not clearly
reported on a disclosure.
Conner Thomas asked if disclosers are told that if they
dont provide adequate clarification that the disclosure
wont be processed.
Jerry Anderson replied that at this time staff asks for
more information for the benefit of the public because the
public doesnt know what, for example, graduation from a
Henry Toll Fellowship, is without the additional
information.
Jerry Anderson emphasized that staff is not trying to pick
on any particular conferences. That is why there a number
of examples on the handout. What the committee sees on the
handout is the information that was published for the
public to see. Sometimes backup information is provided and
sometimes not.
Senator Wilson asked if staff works with Legislative
Council on sanctioned charity events. He wondered whether
some of the conferences listed may be sanctioned charity
events and thus approved by Legislative Council.
Jerry Anderson replied that sanctioned charity events are
filed under a sanctioned charity event disclosure and that
the conferences listed are filed under AS 24.60.080(c)(4),
travel and hospitality primarily for the purpose of
obtaining information on matters of legislative concern.
Jerry Anderson continued, saying that sanctioned charity
events are addressed in a later section [of statute]. A
gift of travel that falls under AS 24.60.080(c)(4) includes
the conference fee, hospitality, surface transportation,
and so on.
Senator David Wilson noted that he knew that Legislative
Council does approve travel for CSG and NCSL conferences.
Senator Wilson mentioned he assumed there was a list of
those types of educational conferences.
Jerry Anderson apologized for misunderstanding Senator
David Wilson's original question. Jerry Anderson clarified
gifts of travel approved by Legislative Council are not a
problem. Those events offered by organizations such as NCSL
would be given less scrutiny than those where staff does
not know the organization or the agenda. Staff is
comfortable that events offered by organizations approved
by Legislative Council are not going to include increasing
your donor base or how to increase your visibility to your
constituents.
Senator David Wilson said that he would be concerned if he
a legislator went to a conference on increasing your donor
base.
Deb Fancher recognized Senator Tom Begich.
Senator Tom Begich said the publics trust in elected
officials has been shattered and it is their responsibility
to hold people to the highest standard to restore that
trust. For that reason, he wants Jerry Anderson to pursue
formal action that will create clarity for the legislators
and for the public so they know where the boundary line
lies.
Deb Fancher asked Senator Tom Begich how the committee
might require an agenda without putting undue burden on
legislators, and what to do if an agenda is not provided?
Senator Tom Begich said he thought there should be a policy
that you would not be reimbursed for the conference cost.
Deb Fancher asked Senator Begich to clarify that he was
saying that if an agenda is not provided, conference costs
would not be reimbursed.
Senator Tom Begich replied yes. He asked, How hard is it
to find an agenda? Senator Begich then commented that he
could find virtually any conference agenda for the last
five years on a computer so there is no excuse for a
legislator not to produce one. Asking for an agenda is not
a burden.
Jerry Anderson said he had clear direction from the
committee that an agenda is required.
Deb Fancher suggested that information be in the next
Ethics Committee Advisor newsletter.
Senator David Wilson moved to require agendas for gifts of
travel disclosures.
Senator Tom Begich seconded the motion.
Conner Thomas asked if the policy is that agendas must be
provided or if the agenda is not provided, there is no
reimbursement.
Senator David Wilson said there wouldnt necessarily be a
reimbursement because the entities provide the travel and
costs upfront for the most part. For example, NCSL has
their own travel agency. He calls that travel agency and
they make all the reservations on his behalf. There is no
monetary transaction between himself and the entity. Other
entities have reimbursable costs. The money does not come
from his legislative account or any other operating fund.
To avoid violation of the ethics act, an agenda should be
provided.
Deb Fancher recognized Skip Cook.
Skip Cook said he thinks it should be required to provide
more than just an agenda. It should also include a
requirement that a determination be made that it served a
legislative purpose. How would that happen? Would it be up
to Jerry?
Joyce Anderson said that Senator David Wilson was saying
that sometimes when legislators go to conferences, their
expenses are paid upfront. Sometimes they submit to the
organization a reimbursement request. The question then
becomes if it is determined that a particular conference
was not strictly for a legislative purpose, does that
legislator or staff person have to pay back the
organization. She thinks that if it is determined that a
particular conference was not strictly for a legislative
purpose, the legislator or legislative staff person should
have to reimburse the organization for expenses paid.
Senator Tom Begich agreed with Joyce Anderson, and he added
that in that case the gift should not be accepted.
Deb Fancher said that there was a motion on the floor and
she entertained a friendly amendment that added teeth to
the motion.
Senator David Wilson asked to remove his motion and make a
new motion that legislators must provide documentation.
Senator Tom Begich proposed a motion to say that
legislators must provide an agenda or other documentation
that shows that the conference or event attended does meet
a legislative and non-elective purpose.
Senator David Wilson agreed with Senator Begich's language
in the proposed motion. Senator Begich seconded Senator
Wilson's motion.
Deb Fancher entertained further discussion. There was no
further discussion.
Deb Fancher asked Jerry Anderson to conduct a vote.
Roll call vote
Representative Chris Tuck Y
Representative DeLena Johnson Y
Skip Cook Y
Conner Thomas Y
Joyce Anderson Y
Deb Fancher Y
Lee Holmes Y
Senator David Wilson Y
Senator Tom Begich Y
The motion was approved.
Joyce Anderson said that considering this is a change in
policy, she proposes that Jerry Anderson send a draft to
the committee to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Deb Fancher agreed it was a good idea and asked Jerry
Anderson if he would send a draft to the committee in the
next week.
9:40 AM
b. 2022 Standards of Conduct Handbook
Deb Fancher directed Jerry Anderson to continue his review
of the agenda items.
Jerry Anderson drew the committees attention to the review
of the state benefit and loan programs requiring disclosure
under AS 24.60.050(c) and listed in Appendix C in the
Standards of Conduct Handbook. He said that the committee
reviews the list on an annual basis and there were a number
of changes requested.
Jerry Anderson informed the committee that to date in 2021,
six legislative employees had filed a total of 12 state
benefit and loan program disclosures. No legislators had
filed state benefit and loan program disclosures.
Jerry Anderson reviewed the requested changes. The first
request was to list the Violent Crimes Compensation Program
under the Department of Public Safety from the Department
of Administration. The change is reflected in the list
provided.
Jerry Anderson stated that the second change request, from
the Department of Natural Resources, is more extensive.
They propose removing from the list all of the programs in
the Division of Mining, Land, and Water because those
programs meet the criteria for non-disclosure. He directed
the committees attention to the draft 2022 list for
Appendix C, in which those Department of Natural Resources
programs were removed, subject to the committees approval.
Senator Tom Begich asked if historically the number of
disclosures filed is a small number. Jerry Anderson
confirmed that was the case.
Senator Tom Begich asked what has fundamentally changed
that would prompt this change.
Jerry Anderson suggested they should never have been on the
list. A letter is sent to each department asking for review
of their programs currently on the list.
Senator Tom Begich directed a question to Committee Member
Joyce Anderson. He asked if, in her experience as past
administrator and with working with the various entities,
she had a thought about the proposed changes.
Joyce Anderson said the state benefit and loan program
started before her time as administrator. She stated that
she had a question similar to Senator Begich's. She
continued saying that a statement from the Department of
Natural Resources that says, there is discretion in terms
of using the authorization, but not in determining
qualifications. She explained that to her it sounds like
the benefit and loan program does not eliminate anyone
based on the qualifications that they have, so she doesnt
understand what they mean by there is discretion in terms
of using the authorization. She questions if that means
there is someone who has discretion in terms of determining
who is participating in these programs. That is the intent
of the benefit and loan statute, to not allow that type of
discretion based on who you are, whether you are advantaged
or disadvantaged because of who you are.
Conner Thomas remarked that in past reviews, somebody from
the department wanting to make a change was available to
speak to the changes requested. He asked Jerry Anderson if
there was information other than what was provided in the
packet regarding how these programs were administered.
Jerry Anderson responded that the packet contained what was
received back after the departments review.
Conner Thomas said he didnt think the committee had enough
information to make a decision to remove the programs. He
agrees with Joyce Anderson, the sentence she referred to
had also caught his eye.
Lee Holmes said that a disclosure is needed if the program
is not generally available to members of the public;
subject to fixed, objective eligibility standards; and
minimal discretion in determining qualification. He thinks
that a blanket statement without backup information is
insufficient, and asked that Jerry seek documentation to
support the changes requested. He said he did not think the
committee could agree to the changes without the
documentation.
Jerry Anderson said that a contact within the department
had agreed to be available to answer questions from the
committee. However, Jerry Anderson continued, given the
number of different programs involved, the contact may not
be able to speak in any detail about individual programs.
As there will be a review of the list again in 2022, if the
committee is inclined to keep the programs on the list,
someone knowledgeable about each of the programs could be
requested to appear before the committee to answer
questions.
Senator Tom Begich agreed with Jerry Anderson, otherwise,
he said, he would have to vote no on removing them from the
list because he cant see removing them without a
rationale.
Senator David Wilson reminded the committee about the
change to the Violent Crimes Compensation Board.
Jerry Anderson said that it being a separate issue, the
committee might want to agree to that change request.
Senator Tom Begich moved to list the Violent Crimes
Compensation Board under the Department of Public Safety.
Lee Holmes seconded.
Deb Fancher asked for other discussion. Hearing none, she
directed Jerry Anderson to conduct a roll call vote on the
question.
Roll call vote
Joyce Anderson Y
Deb Fancher Y
Lee Holmes Y
Senator David Wilson Y
Senator Tom Begich Y
Representative Chris Tuck Y
Representative DeLena Johnson Y
Skip Cook Y
Conner Thomas Y
The motion passed 9-0.
9:50 AM
d. 2022 Ethics Training
Deb Fancher directed Jerry Anderson to report on the 2022
ethics training.
Jerry Anderson reported that in 2022 only video training
would be available, using the same videos as were used
throughout the year in 2021 for new employees. He added
that IT is working with the ethics office on a different
delivery method that it is hoped will better track
attendance. In 2022, only new employees are required to
complete training. If there is a larger group of new
employees than anticipated, and based on COVID protocols in
the capitol, there is a possibility that the current plan
would be changed to include in person training sessions.
c. 2022 Standards of Conduct Handbook
Deb Fancher stated that she had missed item C, the 2022
Standards of Conduct Handbook. She said approval or
discussion is sought from the committee.
Jerry Anderson said that a change is needed to Appendix C
before wider distribution to reflect the decision by the
committee not to approve eliminating all the requested
programs.
Jerry Anderson said that the handbook is available online
and that to minimize waste, the plan is to provide one copy
of the handbook to each of the legislative offices and to
each of the LIOs, and have available a limited number of
copies if anyone wants one.
Deb Fancher asked Jerry Anderson if a motion was required.
Jerry Anderson replied that no motion was required.
Joyce Anderson asked Jerry Anderson if he wanted to add
anything about the lists of advisory opinions.
Jerry Anderson replied that there were no advisory opinions
in 2021 so there are no changes to the list and there are
no legislative changes.
9:56:02 AM
6. CONTRACT REPORT
Deb Fancher asked Jerry Anderson to report on the outside
counsel and investigator contracts.
a. Outside Counsel
Jerry Anderson said that Legislative Legal is drafting an
outside counsel contract that will be put forward to the
committee when it is ready. The draft contract is with
Brent Cole for $5,000 - $225 per hour.
b. Investigator
Jerry Anderson said the ethics office was also looking at
an extension of the current investigator contract to cover
the time period between the end of 2021 and the end of the
fiscal year. The contract is with Monique Rapuzzi, at $115
per hour.
Senator Tom Begich asked why the amount of the contract
with outside counsel was $5,000 when the hourly rate is
$225. Five thousand dollars is not evenly divisible by
$225.
Jerry Anderson responded that $5,000 is a round number.
7. OTHER BUSINESS
Deb Fancher asked if there were any other business to
discuss.
Joyce Anderson reminded the public member requirement to
file APOC disclosures in January.
Lee Holmes reminded everyone to file annual ethics
disclosures as well.
8. ADJOURN
Deb Fancher entertained a motion to adjourn.
Motion made by: Senator Tom Begich
There were no objections. The meeting was adjourned.
9:58:27 AM
ADJOURN:
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| 20211217 FullCommitteePacketBASIS.pdf |
JETH 12/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |